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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 4, 2011 15:02:12 GMT -5
Aah, ok, I thought I had to declare Evasive Driving before the attack, not as a reflex. Well, that does change things a bit. Let's do this instead. I'll push one of the oncoming vehicles to medium range. What kinds of vehicles are coming at me? That kind of would determine my response. If there are some relatively weaker types, I'll plan to LMG and pull a Maneuver Stunt at the end of the round. If they're all heavier, cut offs and rams will take place instead. I'm guessing a perception check at a -2 due to conditions, right? Perception test. (13d6.hits(5)=6) |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 4, 2011 21:50:24 GMT -5
Oh my god the trailer. I forgot that you are trailering into this madness. Let's call that as a flat reduction of Handling by 1 and an increase in thresholds by 1. Trailering is not necessarily hard, but it sure is awkward and does not lend itself well to demolition derbies!
About incoming vehicles:
None of the vehicles appear stock.
One of the bikes is moving to Medium range, behind Screech's vehicle.
Vehicles in short range include two bikes with an ork and a human each brandishing SMGs. The technical has a tripod mounted HMG and accompany'ing troll.
Initiative goes to Screech for his first action.
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 5, 2011 10:43:06 GMT -5
Lol yeah, the trailer...  That seems pretty reasonable. I suppose it's fair to mention I forgot my AR threshold reduction earlier, so the threshold is a wash. Driving pool down to 14 minus conditions then. Lessee then. They get a +1 on the position test for every allied car in the pack, so they're at a +7? good gravy. Better start taking 'em down - good thing it doesn't apply to all vehicle tests... I'm going to ignore the bikes for now, since SMGs aren't a big deal for the Roadmaster and they're eminently crushable. I'm a little concerned about the cars further back, but one thing at a time. This action is on the technical. Considering everything is heavily armored, the LMG and ramming is probably best for the bikes. I'll use a Stunt to Cut Off the Technical. Opposed Vehicle Test: 15d6 - 1 (Trailer) + 2 (Gearhead, stunt) - 4 (Weather Conditions) + 2 (Sensor suite) = 14d6. Threshold: 1 + 0 (road conditions wash) + 1 (VR) - 1 (Trailer) = 1 Vehicle Test. (14d6.hits(5)=3)3? really? ugh. Well, there ya go. A weak ass cut off attempt. |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 6, 2011 11:31:53 GMT -5
Final ruling about conditions is that the opposed vehicle test for the start of the turn (controlling range) will be unmodified, but stunts will suffer a base Threshold increase of 2. Just wanted to point that out. I'd given it some thought, and, while I realize that this will slow everything down a bit, it also makes the whole thing higher-risk for everyone involved and better reflects the circumstances (road conditions, weather, etc.). Remember that failing a test will produce a crash test - that does not mean that your vehicle Jerry Bruckheimer's into a fireball, flipping in slow motion. It means you bang into something and pinball around the road. Also note that by taking a test that requires an opposed vehicle test, as long you force them to take a test, they will fail it too and will be forced to make a crash test. Everybody loses.I'll roll with this first action as written and will keep the oncoming vehicle's test unmodified as a result. Future tests will follow the above ruling. Technical truck attempts to avoid being rammed! (8d6.hits(5)=1) EDIT: drop last two dice per Cut Off action rules, page 170 SR4A. Reduction in dice produces a Glitch!Vehicle is CRASHED! Glitch creates a SPECTACULAR crash! Edge (1) check to see if the vehicle will crash any friendlies! Edge (1) test. (2d6.hits(5)=1)Test passed. Still looks awesome tho. Technical truck Jerry Bruckheimers! Two remaining motorcycles in Short Range. One lead pursuit motorcycle in Medium Range. Three lag pursuit vehicles in Medium Range. One lag pursuit vehicle in Long range. |
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 6, 2011 11:47:27 GMT -5
Whups, crap. Missed that line entirely. Noted for future reference....
Who-hoo Bruckheimer! Is that a verb now? because if it isn't, I'd like to nominate it for the OED.
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 6, 2011 11:57:42 GMT -5
Both bikes take aim and fire short, narrow bursts into the tires of Screech's vehicle. Both bikers let fly with Ingram Smartguns at Screech's tires. -2 visibility, -2 moving vehicle, -4 called shot = 0 dice. (0d6=)The bikers, try as they might, only manage to hit the side of your armored van, the ground and the cold, dead night. Three vehicles in Medium Range will Maneuver. Maneuver (2) test. (9d6.hits(5)=1, 9d6.hits(5)=3, 9d6.hits(5)=4)One of the vehicles fails to meet his threshold and crashes. Removed from the chase. Fourth vehicle in Medium Range is a technical with a machinegun mounted. It will engage Screech's van. Base attack is 6p, -2 AP. Full auto adds +9 DV. -2 visibility, -3 moving vehicle. Edge (1) test to see if the range is within 80m. Edge (1) test. (2d6.hits(5)=0). Vehicle is firing from 80+ meters, Medium Range is -1 dp. Total is -6 DP. Technical MG-gunner engages the Van. (4d6.hits(5)=1). 1 hit. Incoming damage is 15p -2 AP with 1 net hit to dodge. Vehicle in Long Range will hold position. |
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 6, 2011 12:52:38 GMT -5
ok, here's where I declare Evasive Driving, using a complex action. So defense is thus: Reaction (4) + Handling (1) + Control Rig Booster (3) - Weather (2) + Vehicle Skill (5) + Control Rig (2) + Hot Sim (2) = 14dp Dodge. (14d6.hits(5)=4)Phew! Now, does this take my next complex action, or just a complex action? |
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 6, 2011 12:54:59 GMT -5
follow on question, since I'm a little confused here:
In the rules, increase in DV from autofire isn't used to determine the reduction from P to S in terms of personal armor.
In Vehicle combat, if the DV of an attack is below the armor rating, then the attack is basically ignored.
Does the increased DV from an autofire attack compare against vehicle armor for this purpose too? or is the DV from autofire purely for damage purposes?
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 6, 2011 13:37:32 GMT -5
DV from autofire is pure damage and does not factor into Armor Penetration. Check the Obsidian Portal House Rules page for a ruling on dropping attack dice to defeat armor that differs from the core rules. This allows weapons that are not WTFPWNBBQ to damage targets without murmaidering them utterly if they bypass armor. So, your van (armor 16! the same as an APC!) can't be damaged by most small arms unless they are using heavy weapons. Consider all MG's amended to Heavies. |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 6, 2011 13:39:59 GMT -5
ok, here's where I declare Evasive Driving, using a complex action. So defense is thus: Reaction (4) + Handling (1) + Control Rig Booster (3) - Weather (2) + Vehicle Skill (5) + Control Rig (2) + Hot Sim (2) = 14dp Dodge. (14d6.hits(5)=4)Phew! Now, does this take my next complex action, or just a complex action? Technically, your roll generates 4 hits, enough to bypass the Threshold (2) by 2 hits. So, you get 2 net hits. You still dodge. The Evasive Driving check takes up your NEXT available complex action. |
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 6, 2011 14:07:48 GMT -5
Well, the Technical already had an HMG stated, so no biggie there Just as clarification, why was the Threshold 2? 1 for the attack hit, 1 for reducing the damage to 14dp or less, and 1 net hit for...? don't I dodge on ties? Maybe I missed something... And yeah, I've been struggling to come up with a catch-all generic for the Roadmaster, which basically is an APC, with Life Support, Personal Armor and gunports as standard mods. Van isn't quite right, truck isn't either, so... APC? dunno. Whilst browsing the house rules, I noticed a paragraph about getting Unmodified Chax2 in contact points at the beginning of the game. Which I hadn't noticed before. Nor exercised. :-\ Should I come up with another contact? or find another contact sometime through IC? |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 6, 2011 18:44:33 GMT -5
Well, the Technical already had an HMG stated, so no biggie there Just as clarification, why was the Threshold 2? 1 for the attack hit, 1 for reducing the damage to 14dp or less, and 1 net hit for...? don't I dodge on ties? Maybe I missed something... And yeah, I've been struggling to come up with a catch-all generic for the Roadmaster, which basically is an APC, with Life Support, Personal Armor and gunports as standard mods. Van isn't quite right, truck isn't either, so... APC? dunno. Whilst browsing the house rules, I noticed a paragraph about getting Unmodified Chax2 in contact points at the beginning of the game. Which I hadn't noticed before. Nor exercised. :-\ Should I come up with another contact? or find another contact sometime through IC? If you net more hits on your Dodge check than the incoming attack nets, you successfully dodge the attack. Thus, no damage. The threshold is increased by 2 because Evasive Driving is still a Driving Test. The usual threshold is 0 for easy conditions. Our conditions are setting a threshold of 2 (not 4, since 4 basically means that anyone doing anything dangerous or desperate immediately crashes and exits chase combat). So, once you reach the threshold, any further hits are net hits. Per Dodging (see above), if you net more hits on a dodge check (and you did), you dodge and the attack does no damage. Finally, about the contacts, you can do it any way you please. Add them now or establish something IC. It is up to you. As an amnesiac, it is entirely possible that someone you knew remembers you (even if you do not remember them) and maybe even cares about you. |
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 6, 2011 21:03:02 GMT -5
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I've always had a selective understanding of combat mechanics in SR in general, let alone SR4, so that's really helpful, actually.
Ok, I'd like to have a contact I simply don't remember (kind of appropriate, I suppose). I'm picturing someone who remembers me from before, probably a higher level of friendship/relationship but a low level of connection, explaining why they've taken this long to track me down. 4/2? maybe more 5/1. Yeah, friendly and all but not so good at tracking stuff down. Should I come up with more details?
After this Run Screech is going to try to spend some time figuring out himself. I'd really like to explore his backstory more, I think it could be very cool. If it generates Runs, great, but I'd love to get into some story.
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 7, 2011 9:25:18 GMT -5
I believe this brings us up to Turn 1, Pass 3.
Screech is the only driver active that has a 3rd pass.
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 7, 2011 9:59:24 GMT -5
Interesting bit from SR4: That will get messy, really quick, no? yowsa... Ok, time for some shooting. He's gonna try to take out one of the bikes in short range to himself. If he gets to take out someone behind as well, great. If not, oh well. Full Auto LMG attack. +9DV, 8p -3 AP base. Attack Dice Pool - 13d6 - 2 (weather) - 0 (gyrostabilized) = 11dp Trading 2 attack dice in to reduce any armor on said bike. Dice pool = 9 dp Whud-d-d-d-d. (9d6.hits(5)=3) |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 7, 2011 12:18:51 GMT -5
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 7, 2011 13:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 7, 2011 16:32:12 GMT -5
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 7, 2011 17:17:49 GMT -5
Ok I'll take that ranging. Opening up (Full Auto) on the technical with the LMG like last time, trading in 2 dice for -2 AP. LMG Again. (9d6.hits(5)=2)DV 8 + 9 = 17p, AP -3 + -2 = -5 |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 7, 2011 17:21:51 GMT -5
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 7, 2011 17:51:39 GMT -5
Well.... shoot. Does he have the same increased threshold that I did? Bike too, for that matter (a bit moot at this point, but still...) Or since it's a straight dodge and not evasive driving it doesn't? |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 8, 2011 10:15:35 GMT -5
Since it is not an Evasive Driving Test, it's just a straight test. At least that is how I took it. It is the difference between using Reaction to dodge and using your Dodge active skill in Full Defense.
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 8, 2011 12:08:48 GMT -5
Ok, cool. So it's more dangerous to drive evasively than to just dodge - which in the current conditions actually makes a bit of sense. Right on.
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 11, 2011 17:49:35 GMT -5
TURN 2, PHASE 1Short: Screech, HMG TechnicalHMG Technical Complex Action (driver): Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2)2 net hits. +2 on next Chase Vehicle Test. Complex Action (gunner): Long burst at Screech's van. Dropping 2 dice to reduce armor.1 net hit. Incoming damage is 7p[8p](+9), AP -2 (-2).
Medium: Bike Bike CA Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2)3 net hits. +3 to next Chase Vehicle Test.
Long: Bike, Bike, HMG TechnicalBike CA Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2) 2 net hits. +2 to next Chase Vehicle Test. Bike CA Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2) 2 net hits. +2 to next Chase Vehicle Test. HMG Technical CA (Driver): Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2)0 hits. Glitch. Group Edge 1 -> 0. Re-rolling failures.1 hit. Fails to reach threshold. Crashes. Vehicle out of Chase Combat. CA (gunner): Long burst at Screech's van.. 3 net hits. Incoming damage is 7p [10p](+9), AP -2.
Extreme: HMG TechnicalCA (Driver): Maneuver, Vehicle Test (2)2 net hits. +2 on next Chase Vehicle test.
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 11, 2011 17:58:55 GMT -5
OOC head check:
A 16 armor van is nearly an APC (Ares Citymaster, literally an APC, is 20 armor, stock).
Just to make sure that you understand, if you tangle with people that have the resources and continue to escalate against a vehicle like this, there is not going to be a reasonable way to handle it. If the vehicle can not be stopped by small arms, a VTOL with anti-tank guided missiles is probably going to be the answer - ie the vehicle will be utterly destroyed.
Much like the LA bank robbery in the 90s where, when faced with heavily armored gunman, the LAPD fell back on marksmen and high velocity, armor piercing rounds to kill - with extreme prejudice - the perpetrators.
Just making sure you understand what kind of message getting hit by a LoneStar HMG and having it go *bounce* would be.
EDIT: Just read the description in Arsenal. The Roadmaster is not the kind of vehicle you can reliably drive in higher security areas without broadcasting a really decent SIN. It is the equivalent of walking into a public space with a pistol on your hip - even if it is legal, everybody knows the score (and will adjust accordingly).
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 12, 2011 10:05:29 GMT -5
No, I very much get it. We had a similar discussion over my original choice of armament, with a similar outcome. The whole purpose of this van was that at 16 armor stock it was a lot like the 2065 version of a Brinks Security Truck. Sure, it gets some more attention than another Jackrabbit clone, but what doesn't? The rationale goes something like this: As a Rigger, you transport Goods or People. Generally, it needs to be there under duress, otherwise they would just hire a corp team. Since the 'run will generally be opposed by people out to get you, there's two schools of thought. School A is go faster than the other guy, you'll eventually lose him. School B is the other guy will eventually get a shot off at you, so you'd better be able to take it. My thought was that Riggers tend to haul cargo, and people being a special form thereof. The most appropriate vehicle was a truck listed as a Transport in the book (hence my thoughts on cargo capacity). Sure, I could have gone with yet another Bulldog (which 90% of 'runners own, apparently ) but I saw this one and thought it was more interesting. They're both armored transport vans. I had seriously considered something like a Tata Hotspur instead, which comes with obscenely high speed and good handling (and smart tires factored in), but since I was assuming I would be taking decently heavy fire during most 'runs, the stock armor on the Roadmaster I felt was better. Ramping up armor on any vehicle tends to be pretty obvious, so I felt that a heavily armored HotSpur would attract as much if not more attention than a pretty stock looking Brinks Truck. I'll be honest, I didn't realize just how much armor 16 really was until this particular 'run. I'm personally pretty happy with the way it is turning out (go figure) but I could definitely see why heavier armaments would quickly become the norm, while my own firepower is somewhat limited. Hell, the first trip into the Barrens involved some crack-head with an RPG, and scatter rules saved my hide on that. I do see your point on the security rating issue, and I'll probably want to get a motorcycle or something for higher security meet-n-greets (since my SIN was capped at 3 and the license capped at 4 due to availability restrictions). On the other hand, if someone wants to hire me for a corporate extraction or something, I dunno. The Roadmaster is definitely designed more for secure cargo rather than smash and grabs. |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 12, 2011 10:34:19 GMT -5
It is working out splendidly on this run.
Your thoughts about Riggers are dead on. I'd consider having a 'loud' vehicle (the Roadmaster) for barrens runs like this one and a 'quiet' vehicle (something else) for when a given situation calls for discretion.
I believe you have two HMG bursts to dodge.
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 12, 2011 11:58:27 GMT -5
Yep, getting there I think along with working to find out more about himself, Screech is going to be saving up a bit for a more, ah, discrete mode of transportation. Not Evasive driving, not looking for crashes. Reaction (4) + Handling (1) + Control Rig Booster (3) - Weather (2) + Hot Sim (2) = 8dp Dodging the first: Dodge. (8d6.hits(5)=4) - Dodged handily. Dodging the second: Dodge. (8d6.hits(5)=2) - 1 net hit. Damage - 7P -> 8P, AP -2. Armor reduced to 14, still greater than adjusted damage. No damage taken. But he does scuff the paint, the bastard. |
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Post by NoOnesShowMonkey on Apr 12, 2011 14:28:04 GMT -5
That brings up Turn 2, Pass 2.
Screech is first.
I'll get an IC post up soon.
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Post by ScornMandark on Apr 12, 2011 15:34:59 GMT -5
Screech is going to attempt to riddle that technical again with bullets. Hopefully he won't dodge this time. He likes keeping folks back, so he'll keep shooting this Pass and then stunt next. Opening up (Full Auto Wide Burst), trading in 2 dice for -2 AP. LMG. (9d6.hits(5)=3)DV 8 + (net hits) P, AP -3 + -2 = -5, -9 to dodge |
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That seems pretty reasonable. I suppose it's fair to mention I forgot my AR threshold reduction earlier, so the threshold is a wash. Driving pool down to 14 minus conditions then.